Empathy, influence, and loving learning: Astrud Burgess, CMO of ANZ, on leading her company through increased complexity

In this ADMA Spotlight, we’re talking to Astrud Burgess, CMO of ANZ, about her journey from agencies to the C-suite, how marketers can build influence in complex environments, and how empathy and data has shaped her leadership approach.

To start off, can you tell us a little about your career to date?

I planned to be a marketer since my school careers guidance counsellor suggested it to me when I was about 15. And started by getting a master's degree in marketing from Otago University.

My first job out of Uni was as a Retail Grad at ANZ, as part of this role I worked in areas of the bank for about six weeks a rotation. During that time, I relentlessly applied for every marketing job available at ANZ and finally they gave in and offered me a role in the marketing team. After a few years I left ANZ and joined BNZ before leaving for London where I worked in marketing in Telcos and at several advertising agencies.

When the time was right to return to NZ, I targeted ANZ for a role as I had enjoyed my time at ANZ starting in a segment marketing role, which for me was the perfect place because strategy has always been my passion. Over the next eight years I progressed through a number of leadership roles before finally being offered the Head of Marketing Role at ANZ.

A lot of my career has involved me doing a job, then adding another capability or responsibility to it - eventually leading to me doing more things and getting more roles. In this same vein, after becoming Head of Marketing, I picked up the data team and then the CX team, moving through the ANZ ranks to become CMO just over a year ago.

What have been a few of your professional highlights along the journey?

One of the key highlights is learning how to be commercial and understanding how to communicate the value of what marketing delivers to the organisation.

This came about from the Head of Marketing role, which was a big change in the sense I was no longer working for a marketer but rather the CEO. That meant I was constantly having to find the next opportunity we should be chasing. I think that’s a key moment for any marketer - the first time you work for someone outside the marketing team, because it requires that you become more commercially minded and set your own high standards for evolving the function.

In addition to marketing, I studied statistics at university, which stood me in good stead when i couldn’t get a job in marketing in London and instead worked as a contractor building databases. It gave me a little bit of an insight into how to work with data and some of the constraints that come with that. That's been really helpful in understanding how data and marketing can best work together.

Finally, when I finally did land a job in an agency in London, that experience was incredible. As a marketer, if you can work in an agency and in a marketing team, you’ll understand what the constraints and pressures are much better than from the client-side. Even just understanding how an advertising agency makes money is useful, because you can be clear on where to push for more value and what price is fair.

How important is maintaining and growing your marketing skill set in today’s marketing environment? How do you approach this for you and your team?

It's just so critical. I'm lucky because I love learning, and I love when I must change my mind. There's a saying: “Strong opinions, loosely held”. I think that would be a fair characterisation for my approach.

I seek a mix of expert advice and formal learning. I have a team of people, who I respect incredibly, that I can call about any professional problem or just to debate the finer points of marketing theory. I also engage with formal learning. I’ve just signed up to a new marketing masterclass by Thomas Barta on how to manage stakeholders and what marketing leadership really looks like. Judging marketing competitions, such as the EFFIES or WARC is also an incredible way to hone my skills by studying the work other people are most proud of there is a lot to learn.

The other things I do is attend industry conferences and read up on the latest literature. I stay up to date with the latest from Byron Sharp, Mark Ritson, or any other of the big thinkers of our time. I try to encourage my team to sign up for these courses and conferences, as well as keeping up to date with the latest intelligence. Thankfully, I inherited this role from Sweta Mehra, who really instilled a culture of training in our marketers.

What is one thing you wish you learned earlier in your career?

I think the most important thing is that marketers should be good at having real influence within an organisation. This has taken me more time than I would like to admit, and I'm nowhere near where I should be - but it is really critical.

As a marketer, if you just apply your marketing training to stakeholders, then it's really simple. Something Sweta always used to say is: “What do you think people will do? What do you want them to do? How do you think they feel?” That may sound simple, but you would be surprised how many times people bring me a PowerPoint and I have to ask them what they want people to feel or act at the end of the presentation. They haven't even thought about the audience, let alone the change they're trying to affect. Which is critical to building influence.

What do you think is going to have the biggest impact on marketing over the next few years?

I've been working at the intersection of data and marketing for a very long time. I'm a direct marketer by training, and it has always been incredibly hard to get my hands on data and use it in a really exciting way within personalisation campaigns. But I feel we are closer now than we have ever been to really doing great work at scale, powered by data - that’s at ANZ and the industry as a whole.

What are some of the key regulatory developments that are in progress right now that you think will shape the future of data-driven marketing

We are trying to understand how to balance customers wanting us to recognise and reward them, with an increased desire to have greater privacy for their data. I believe regulation and the removal of cookies is an expression of that conversation.

But people still want personalised, targeted information to be sent to them at the right time. So yes, regulation is there, but we still need the customer to understand and express what they want us to do with their data in service of their ambition.

What do you think are the biggest challenges confronting marketers today?

I think the biggest challenge is complexity. Even if we just look at something like media fragmentation, that by itself is really interesting. Then we can look at something like sponsorship, which has been a key part of how we have engaged at a brand level in New Zealand - even the sports that people play is fragmenting. There’s change around what people care about and then how you can tell stories - there is just general increased complexity everywhere we turn.

For many marketers, I think there is just too much going on now. They need to figure out a framework so that they can make smart decisions at pace to cope with this complex world. Within that, you need the mental models that allow you to move forward quickly.

What’s the best piece of advice you would give to a university graduate starting their first role in marketing?

I would say: “You have chosen one of the most exciting careers possible, and the thing that you need to develop above all else is empathy. A marketer needs to be able to look at data, insights and research to see the customer and the person. If you can have a highly developed sense of empathy, you can be a great marketer.”

Why are organisations like ADMA so important for the wider media and marketing industry?

ADMA provides essential resources, advocacy and education to help professionals navigate the rapidly evolving digital landscape. It ensures industry standards for compliance and regulatory support, provides training to upskill marketers, and fosters a community that encourages best practice.

ADMA also plays a key role in shaping industry policy, and helps businesses adapt to change while driving innovation and maintaining ethical standards - which are so important to get right.

For me, it's really about partnerships, staying ahead of the trends, their help with the regulatory requirements and interpreting them in a customer-centric way, and providing some learning materials for our marketers.

Can you think of any really well executed, data driven campaigns or partnerships that you admire?

It’s not a campaign but more a loyalty program. I am terrible with MECCA. I am addicted to my Beauty Loop bonuses. The problem with marketers is we love good marketing, so I like to say I participate for “research”. But MECCA really draws me in - they email me about my birthday and I’m on my app so fast buying the latest beauty product that I must have. I think their loyalty program is just phenomenal.

They cost me a fortune, but I’m exactly the kind of customer they want.

What do you enjoy doing outside of work?

I love to read, mostly very trashy novels. I like spending time with my family, and I like to do a little bit of exercise and mindfulness practice.